Topic: To Join The Military??
Knight5k
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Date Posted: 12/1 10:08pm Subject: To Join The Military??
This has been a big question on my mind for about a month. not sure what branch of the military i want to join but i want to be apart of one of them and to be apart of a brotherhood and defend in what i believe. any former military men and women can please share your opinions and help me make a judgement.
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Daimar
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Date Posted: 12/1 10:35pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
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Metal_Dog
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Date Posted: 12/1 11:02pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
Quite frankly, I am philosophically opposed to military service, and as such I am likely to advise you not to join.
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RedCardinal
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Date Posted: 12/1 11:20pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military?? - Date Edited: 12/1 11:21pm (1 edits total) Edited By: RedCardinal
I would not go at this point and time i would wait tell Bush is out of office then get in. I’m sure Bush is hard at work trying to make up stuff to go to war with some one else only this time people woke up only took 2k people getting killed to do it. I found a interesting web sight today
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/11/iraq-intel/
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OmieGal
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Date Posted: 12/2 2:56am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
RedCardinal posted:
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I would not go at this point and time i would wait tell Bush is out of office then get in. I’m sure Bush is hard at work trying to make up stuff to go to war with some one else only this time people woke up only took 2k people getting killed to do it. I found a interesting web sight today
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/11/iraq-intel/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best post evar!
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Tiralle
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Date Posted: 12/2 3:46am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
I'm not in the military, but I'm married to a career sailor (he's been in 13 years and is an E-6), so I'm throwing my $0.02 in here.
Military life is definitely not the life for everyone and I'm not going to try to sway you to join or stay out either way. That being said, there are some great opportunities for the people that serve, but those come with huge risks and sacrifices. For example, you will be very far away from everyone you know and love for an extended amount of time. Even if you aren't deployed, you will have boot camp, training and then your first post - which could be anywhere in the world. I've been told that this is, by far, the hardest thing about serving (and I know people who have done year+ long tours in Iraq for).
What I can give you is some sage advice if you do decide to enlist:
- Unless you want to be absolute front line getting bombed and/or shot at by Iraqi lunatics (I forget what the current PC term is for them - possibly insurgents, but I can't keep track anymore), I'd suggest AF or Navy - especially if you want training in areas to advance your ultimate career goals after you get out of the military.
- Study up for your ASVAB - the higher your score, the more options you have available to you.
- Whatever promises your detailer gives you, GET THEM IN WRITING. Think of him as a used-car salesman - he is going to try to get you to sign at least 4 years of your life away while giving you as little as possible in return. Make SURE you have things like your schools, enlistment bonuses, rate preferences, and post preferences established and in writing before you sign or take the oath.
- Do NOT enlist without a specific job laid out for you (ie. Medicine, Electronics, Electrician, Nuke, Radioman, etc...). Enlisting undesignated means that if there's a crappy job that needs to get done, you will most likely be the one to do it. Those background guys in military movies that have to mow lawns, paint buildings and swab decks while the stars do really cool things are guys who enlisted undesignated.
I'm sure I could talk to my husband more about advice or any specific questions you may have, if you'd like. It's a tough decision to make and thumbs up to you for doing research before you sign on the dotted line.
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TwiceBlessedMan
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Date Posted: 12/2 5:05am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
You should just drink Mountain Dew and do the dew.
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Saladhin
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Date Posted: 12/2 5:48am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
Because our country is currently in a situation like Iraq, the need for soldiers is much higher than the amount available. For this reason, the idea is that a draft might be reenacted. In fact, the bush administration has multiplied the selective services budget by about 15 times, with the order that they be ready to act in 2004. A draft has not yet been declared but instead, the military (all branches) have enacted the Stop-Loss program they signed. Further to this fact, Most servicemen (and women) in the national guard sign up for tech jobs, (equipment repair, medical services, etc.) but in Iraq, they need bodies for patrol duty, and guarding convoys. National Guardsmen are not issued body armor, even when assigned to do these tasks.
And to add insult to this fire, The guy driving that oil tanker is making ten times more money than the servicepersons guarding it.
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spehonfyr
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Date Posted: 12/2 5:50am Subject: RE: To Join The Military?? - Date Edited: 12/2 6:08am (3 edits total) Edited By: spehonfyr
Tiralle has pretty much layed it out for you. I am currently a MAJOR in the Army. Honestly, being in the middle of Iraq at the moment, having been called back to active duty, my hind sight is 20/20. If I had to do it over again, either Marines or AF. The Army is not what it used to be, in my eyes. I work closely with both Marines and AF. Marine training and morale is second to none. Air Force makes rank slower, but they always live much more comfortably. Both Air Force and Marines are technically proficient. Marines are the grunts and the Air Force are the Techies. I have had 23 years service in the Army, about 50/50 active and reserve, and another 2 years active duty ahead now. I tell you, unless the Army offers you an MOS that can not be found in the other services, Marine or AF IMHO. Special Forces, Ranger school are all great...but there are no guarantees you will get them or through them. Although, I have heard that its much easier with the lower recruitment.....not what I went through.
(I did not mention Navy. because as I have seen....poor lower enlisted navy live worse than any soldier, marine or airmen)
I also wanted to add.....I do not have the luxury of expressing a political opinion here. For me...the reason we are here is moot....I can't worry about that. What I worry about...what I do every day is protect my kids in uniform....my brothers and sisters in uniform. I tried to explain to my wife....while I may not agree to the why, I have to be here with these soldiers, marines, airmen and sailors.....we need each other to get through this. I do not know if you can understand what I am saying if you have not served. Military service is apolitical, while you are in the middle of the mix. Its about the mission, relying on one another and staying alive.
I hope this helps...
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Exclusive_VN
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Date Posted: 12/2 8:30am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
First I'd like to say to Speho, thank you for your service. Read his last paragraph carefully. When you are deployed, it's about the mission and the men. **** politics. You start down that path and you become a liability. You do your job (whatever it is) at 100%, 100% of the time and watch each others back so everyone comes back alive. Period. Let the politicians do their job, you do yours. If you can't accept this philosophy I would advise against military service. I've seen some very bitter political idealists in the military.
If you decide on trying to become a Marine, I can guarantee it will change your life forever. The men I served with and all Marines are my family. I will do anything for them to this day. I'm not going to whitewash it or give you a recruitment speech. Give it alot of thought. Chances are you will be in the middle of the worst **** going on at the moment. Chances are you will be deployed more than you will be home. I assume you are not married or engaged. If so, statistically, you will not be at the end of your tour. If you are an 0311 or other combat MOS, you will probably see someone you know killed. You may die or be maimed yourself. If you can accept these strong possibilities, talk to a Marine recruiter. I have never regretted my decision and would go back in if they would let me. If you can't accept this, talk the AF recruiter. Frankly, they are the only service that does it right. They ship their officers out to the front line.
Don't get caught up in the 'our service is best' bs. Anyone that serves in the military has my utmost respect regardless of the branch. Each has its mission and each has my respect and gratitude. Do what's right for you and good luck.
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Fiercely
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Date Posted: 12/2 9:17am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
sounds like a marine to me
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Bombax
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Date Posted: 12/2 11:47am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
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Knight5k
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Date Posted: 12/2 11:50am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
First off i want to thank you all for taking the time and showing me you points of views and opinions on the Military. I'm discussing this with my family members primarly because they're the ones of most importance to me. I'm going to sit down for a little bit longer and think about it long and hard. My Biggest fear is not of dieing however that is a fear, but the fear of being disfigured or life altering injury. Also i do not know how i would truly be aple to cope with actually being in a battle.
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Sepolevne
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Date Posted: 12/2 12:16pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
I don't want to get my personal feelings involved in this thread, but any talk of a draft is not going to happen. Bringing the draft back would be politcal suicide for any poitican that tries it.
The millitary is great for vocational training. If you want to be something, the millitary will usually be able to make you into that thing. I have a good friend (and former DAoC Galahadian) that is right now at whatever base it is in Ketucky training to be a tank commander.
Also, the millitary has put in place a politically motivated system of deffered deployment. This means that if you enlist now, you don't have to serve right away. You can delay your active duty service. Back about a year ago, the millitary was having problems getting new recruits to enlist because of Iraq.
From what I haar from my friend though, don't get into the millitary if you think that you are going to not fight in a war. That's what I hear (not personally) was preached to the recruits that came up about 2 or 3 years ago. Now they're all in Iraq saysing, "Gee, I never signed up in the millitary to fight in any kind of war.
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Dums
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Date Posted: 12/2 1:45pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
spehonfyr posted:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tiralle has pretty much layed it out for you. I am currently a MAJOR in the Army. Honestly, being in the middle of Iraq at the moment, having been called back to active duty, my hind sight is 20/20. If I had to do it over again, either Marines or AF. The Army is not what it used to be, in my eyes. I work closely with both Marines and AF. Marine training and morale is second to none. Air Force makes rank slower, but they always live much more comfortably. Both Air Force and Marines are technically proficient. Marines are the grunts and the Air Force are the Techies. I have had 23 years service in the Army, about 50/50 active and reserve, and another 2 years active duty ahead now. I tell you, unless the Army offers you an MOS that can not be found in the other services, Marine or AF IMHO. Special Forces, Ranger school are all great...but there are no guarantees you will get them or through them. Although, I have heard that its much easier with the lower recruitment.....not what I went through.
(I did not mention Navy. because as I have seen....poor lower enlisted navy live worse than any soldier, marine or airmen)
I also wanted to add.....I do not have the luxury of expressing a political opinion here. For me...the reason we are here is moot....I can't worry about that. What I worry about...what I do every day is protect my kids in uniform....my brothers and sisters in uniform. I tried to explain to my wife....while I may not agree to the why, I have to be here with these soldiers, marines, airmen and sailors.....we need each other to get through this. I do not know if you can understand what I am saying if you have not served. Military service is apolitical, while you are in the middle of the mix. Its about the mission, relying on one another and staying alive.
I hope this helps...
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I think you hit the point well sir
Although, I'd have to tell people to join the Army.. I like it. If you can go Air Force, then do that. But every MOS is needed.. joining the military today, with what you know is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan, just makes you a better person than most, having the courage to join during a time of war and knowing what you're getting yourself into ..
well, good luck
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Goatstar
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Date Posted: 12/2 1:49pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
Joining the air force was the single best decision i made in my life. Regardless of your political view i suggest joining. Whether you agree with bush or not, i suggest joining. It will give you more opprotunities than you would think.
As far as branch, i of course suggest the air force. The officers are the fighting force, so as enlisted you (typically) wont be put in any real danger.
If you want more specific details, please feel free to PM me any questions you have as i am recently convinced that nothing on the vn boards will be taken seriously.
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Uric_Galahad
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Date Posted: 12/2 1:51pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
Move to Canada and join our military..we're the second highest paid in the world and we don't deploy that much...unless you're in the army.
Cheers
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Daimar
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Date Posted: 12/2 2:52pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
Second highest paid? If that's the case then soldiers are underpaid.
Who's the first by the way?
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ChapelArcherkilla
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Date Posted: 12/2 3:50pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
Yah what are your sources for that, I'm always hearing that Canadian soldiers are underfunded...
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artemis_daoc
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Date Posted: 12/2 4:22pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
I believe it's not the cdn soldiers that are under-funded so much but general military spending and funding to buy new military equipment (such as replacing navy helicopters, etc).
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Uric_Galahad
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Date Posted: 12/2 4:23pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
I think the highest paid are new zealand soldiers. Canada's military isn't underpaid, it's under funded...big difference..we get paid a lot, but dont have the cash ofr infrastructure, equipment, new ships airplanes etc.
Cheers
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Goatstar
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Date Posted: 12/2 4:38pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
Uric_Galahad posted:
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I think the highest paid are new zealand soldiers. Canada's military isn't underpaid, it's under funded...big difference..we get paid a lot, but dont have the cash ofr infrastructure, equipment, new ships airplanes etc.
Cheers
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they dont need it, that's what the USA is for. plus if they didn't pay you so much, they would have the funding for that stuff.
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barronn
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Date Posted: 12/2 5:09pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
First a little about me - I have decided, after a long time of researching, to join the Marines as an officer. I have my application in, it has been reviewed and I am currently waiting for word from my selection officer to hear whether or not I have been accepted to officer candidate’s school.
There are many reasons I wanted the join the military, why I think the Marines are the best fit for me, and why I want to be an officer. Some of the reasons I cant put into words.
The Marines and to a lesson extent the air force are the only branch I was interested in
The Marines are not for everyone and the Marines do not want everyone, only a few. If you are very patriotic, willing to risk life and limb for your country, like working out, thrive in high stress and vastly want to improve yourself then you may want to consider the Marine Corps.
A word about the corps, they are a fully autonomous branch; they have an air force, they have tanks, they have artillery, intelligence services, logistics, special forces now, ect. So there are a lot of possible jobs, however, every Marine is a rifleman first and every Marine officer is an infantry officer first so if something big goes down you will find yourself killing scores of chinamen with your m-16.
The air force is a great organization as well. It is not as hard (which you may consider a benefit) and they will teach you some great civilian skills no matter what you end up doing.
I wouldn’t crap on any of the other services, they all do essential jobs, and maybe one of them is a great match for you. I urge you to check out all of the services.
Do you know if you want to go officer or enlisted? This will be an important decision regardless of branch. You will need a bachelor’s degree to become an officer but there are also various programs for tuition assistance for future officers if you do not have it yet (like ROTC). There are also various programs in the services that promote enlisted people to officer. Officers have better pay and various other perks but they have a lot of responsibility and can mess things up real bad if they screw up (ex. an enlisted man's mistake may be shooting up 3 friendly soldiers, an officer's mistake may be calling in an airstike on 100 friendly soldiers).
Be careful when talking to your family, mine doesn’t know anything about the military but they are absolutely flipping out about my decision and are unwilling to learn about why I am doing this and what are the benefits. You have to make this decision for yourself and do not let your family stop you if they are unsupportive. You may regret it for the rest of your life.
Our politicians are in the policy forming part of society and as civilians we are free to say whatever we want about that policy. Once you enter the military you are in the policy executing part of society and whatever your politics are you do your job. You will get in trouble if you discuss politics to excess because it undermines your job. Also consider that presidents will change while you are in the service. For example as disgusting and unlikely as it sounds some delusional liberal may get elected and decide to leave our fledgling Iraqi and afghani allies high and dry. You will have to be prepared to comply with this travesty regardless of how cowardly and un-American it may seem and you will most likely get in trouble for voicing your dissent regardless of how universal it may be.
Anyways I strongly urge you to do a ton of research. Don’t just rely on the recruiter, not that he is going to lie to you, but he may leave out some things you would want to know. This is the age of information and you can learn volumes about the military before making a decision. I suggest first deciding whether a military life would be suitable for you, then determine weather you would like to be an officer, weapons officer, or enlisted, which branch, and which job. I suggest this site as a place to start
http://usmilitary.about.com/ it has a large scope and is filled with good info.
feel free to pm
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Ragnard_vn
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Date Posted: 12/2 8:29pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
There are plenty of other ways to experience brotherhood, become a Firefighter or Paramedic. The military is a dead-end unless you're going career enlistment or Paramedicine.
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Goatstar
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Date Posted: 12/2 11:09pm Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
Ragnard_vn posted:
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There are plenty of other ways to experience brotherhood, become a Firefighter or Paramedic. The military is a dead-end unless you're going career enlistment or Paramedicine.
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While i agree with the first part of what you said the second part is absolutely 100% untrue. There are many things the military can offer to help anyone improve their life dramatically with only a 4 year commitment. If you think otherwise, then you either couldnt' hack it in the military or haven't ever served, either way that's complete rubbish.
The benefits of being ex-military are many. Easiest to pick out is the VA loan. That helped me buy my first house at the very young age of 23 and i know for a fact i couldn't have done that without the military. Then there's the GI bill. bah, i'm going to stop typing now b/c i'm pissed off... but your statement, the "The military is a dead-end unless you're going career enlistment or Paramedicine" portion of it at least, is utter bull****
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Knight5k
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Date Posted: 12/3 12:37am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
Im listening to a lot of peoples differnt points of views. Im more leaning for the army. some marines friends of mine who are enlisted are telling me that i wouldent be suitable for the marines maybe the army. im going to be doing a lot of researching and crucial thinking. i wont be making a decesion for at least another month or so. Im also going into to politics as a career later on and whats going on right now in the poltical world has me fired up and i want to go fight for what i believe, i just fear going under the wrong pretenses.
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Date Posted: 12/3 1:25am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
" There are plenty of other ways to experience brotherhood, become a Firefighter or Paramedic. The military is a dead-end unless you're going career enlistment or Paramedicine."
Paramedics are extremly under paid and both are dead end jobs.
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D3solator
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Date Posted: 12/3 2:47am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
military sounds fun to me
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-kissmeimirish-
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Date Posted: 12/3 6:50am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
Join the Australian Air Force, if I could go back in time, I sure as hell would. But yah, Air Force is the way to go, just make sure you get the job you want or at least kind of want, or you'll be miserable like me.
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Heladric
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Date Posted: 12/3 7:23am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
If you look at the recruitment numbers for the armed forces they are super low. The reason? Gosh I wonder. People see the death toll reaching over 2,000 in Iraq and they don't want to sign up. To be honest I wouldn't ever join a branch of the military, and I definitely wouldn't do it with Bush in office. His attitude towards this war is just terrible.
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D3solator
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Date Posted: 12/3 8:19am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
Military gets paid very good here
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Shandray
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Date Posted: 12/3 10:13am Subject: RE: To Join The Military?? - Date Edited: 12/3 10:16am (1 edits total) Edited By: Shandray
I can use some advice as well. Some of the larger posts I have read above help a lot though.
I came to the boards this morning b/c I am going through a similar experience as the original poster. I am about to turn 33 however, in spite of being very athletic all my life. My #1 dream was to fly Navy but I basically chickened out at age 20 because I didn't have the courage to let my family down (they were very unsupportive of me joining the military).
Being a person that is never satisfied with what I am doing, always wanting vibrance and adventure in life, backing out at age 20 has been the SINGLE, GREATEST REGRET OF MY LIFE, one that I have kicked myself for over the past 13 years, especially when I fell out of the minimum age requirement for Naval Aviation. I fell into the REAL dead-end life of full time work instead, having being told that I should "get a job", which was the worst advice I could have taken. I have pretty much wasted my time since, except that I attained an AA from community college (pretty much useless atm).
Only this past week did I learn that I am not beyond the Marine minimum age requirement and 2nd to having lost the dream of flying Navy, Marines has always appealed to me. I feel this may be a 2nd chance in life being offered me. I went to the recruiter yesterday just to confirm the age allowance and OF COURSE got sucked in to a 3-hour conversation with about 4 sergeants.
I DREAD RECRUITERS. At my age and experience, I am extremely suspicious of their soul agenda being to reel me in regardless of MY best interest. I would like to go in long term and would definitely want to become an officer if I find I have the stuff to be a Marine. However, I am terrified of making the wrong choice. In fact, I don't know if I have any other choice at my age other than going straight in through a recruiter. From what I have read, ROTC age requirements are far below my age and it worries me.
Any suggestions?
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barronn
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Date Posted: 12/3 11:25am Subject: RE: To Join The Military??
Shaud, you don’t need ROTC if you already have a college degree. The program you would do is called officer candidates class (occ) if you already have your degree. If you get accepted you will go to a 10 week hell called officer candidates school (OCS) in Quantico Virginia. It is somewhat similar to recruit training except recruit training turns you into a marine; this is more like a 10 week job interview. Upon completion you will be commissioned a second lieutenant in the Marine Corps, if you fail your relationship with the Marine Corps is terminated (you may be recommended to apply again). After this you will go to a 6 month training class called the basic school in Quantico Virginia where you will learn how to be an officer and you will pick/be assigned a job. After this you will go to you jobs training (6-12 weeks) after which you will be doing your job.
There are 3 kinds of officer contracts in the Marine Corps: air, ground, and law.
Air you are not eligible for due to your age and they have an active duty requirement of 6-8 years (depending on whether you get helos or fixed wing)
Ground you may be eligible for but you will probably need an age waiver (this may not be easy to get). They have many different jobs and the active duty requirement is 3.5 years.
Law you have a highest probability of being eligible for but it requires law school. They take older candidates and you will be serving as a jag officer. Not sure about active duty requirement.
Regardless of whether you apply ground or law you will need a very high physical fitness test score (pft). The events are 3 mile run, dead hang pull-ups, and 2 minutes of crunches (special Marine Corps crunches). The top score is a 300 which would be 18.00 min 3 mile run, 20 dead hang pull-ups, and 100 marine corps crunches in 2 minutes. You will need a score of 300-280 due to your age. Here is a scoring chart:
http://www.ocs.usmc.mil/New_Web_Format/ ... coring.htm
Don’t feel intimidated about this; if you are in decent shape already you can definitely do it if you train hard for a few months. I went from a score of 105 to 245 in less than 2 months on sheer will power.
You need to talk to an officer recruiter ASAP. He will have the best information on if you are eligible. You will find it a much different experience than dealing with an enlisted recruiter because they only want people who are absolutely sure they want to be a marine officer. Furthermore they have more qualified applicants than spots. To get in contact with an officer recruiter fill out this form
http://www.marines.com/page/usmc.jsp?pa ... irect=true and wait for them to contact you. I have heard that this form does not always work so you may need to take a more aggressive approach on locating the officer recruiter in your area (the enlisted recruiting office is a good place to start)
there is an occ class in jun06 (applications due around apr06) which is currently not taking male applicants (this may change) and there is an occ class in oct06 (apps due around aug06) so you have plenty of time but I am sure you want to find out ASAP if your age will be acceptable and start working on an age waiver if you need it. If it is not possible for you to go officer you should still look into going enlisted as there are many great jobs on both sides but do a lot of research regardless. There is a ton of stuff on the web. Here is a forum for marine officer candidates school hopefuls/graduates
http://www.marineocs.com
Feel free to pm
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